WEBVTT 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:02.720 Should your podcast episodes have a consistent length? 00:00:09.500 --> 00:00:12.040 Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast. 00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:13.200 I'm Daniel J. Lewis. 00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:17.400 Unlike traditional broadcasting, there are no show clocks, 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:21.240 scheduled ad breaks, or rigid time slots for podcasts. 00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:26.300 So should you then care about publishing episodes of different lengths? 00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:32.439 Maybe one episode at 15 minutes, one at 30, one at 15, one at 10, one at 45 minutes, one at two hours. 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:36.880 Should you really care if you have episodes that are different lengths like that? 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:43.360 While I think episodes don't have to be the same length, there are some considerations. 00:00:43.950 --> 00:00:48.920 So I don't have a straight yes or no for you on this, but some things for you to think about. 00:00:49.180 --> 00:00:54.400 But in general, I think they do not have to be the same length. 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.040 However, here are some things for you to consider. 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.200 Number one, what does your audience expect? 00:01:01.040 --> 00:01:05.480 People don't usually pick a podcast because of its episode lengths. 00:01:05.860 --> 00:01:08.040 Hey, you gotta check out this podcast. 00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:13.060 It doesn't matter what it's about, but the episodes are 26 minutes long. 00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:16.780 No way, a 26-minute long podcast? 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:18.860 That's exactly what I've been looking for. 00:01:19.160 --> 00:01:20.400 Sign me up right now. 00:01:20.710 --> 00:01:21.920 No one does that. 00:01:22.460 --> 00:01:29.160 But they do often prioritize their listening based on the lengths of the episodes. 00:01:29.370 --> 00:01:30.500 I know I do this. 00:01:30.810 --> 00:01:34.260 I have my podcasts and multiple playlists inside my podcast app. 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:38.140 And I do have a playlist for the quick episodes. 00:01:38.860 --> 00:01:41.200 And I have a playlist for everything else. 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.020 I don't have a playlist for long episodes. 00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:49.040 But I do prioritize some of my personal listening based on the lengths of the episodes. 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:59.600 For example, if I know that I have only a short amount of time to listen to a podcast, then I might pick something a little shorter. 00:02:00.060 --> 00:02:17.520 However, usually I'm choosing based on the kind of podcast I'm going to listen to and whether I know if it's a podcast that is easily interruptible that I can listen to, pause it, maybe even for a few days and then come back to later or find a good time to pause it. 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:22.360 And most of the podcasts I listen to do work that way, whether they're comedy, news related 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:23.820 or anything else like that. 00:02:23.980 --> 00:02:29.200 They often have those moments very frequently in the episode where I could easily pause 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:29.440 them. 00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:33.260 Like take, for example, that story show, my all time favorite podcast. 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:34.620 It's a clean comedy podcast. 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:37.920 They're telling funny life stories in that podcast. 00:02:38.580 --> 00:02:41.100 So I could pause it between a story. 00:02:41.100 --> 00:02:42.600 The stories don't last very long. 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:46.360 Each story they share is maybe a few minutes at most. 00:02:46.540 --> 00:02:47.960 So I could easily pause it. 00:02:48.260 --> 00:02:53.960 So I know that even if an episode is an hour long, it's not an hour long commitment for 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:57.240 me, but I can listen to it, pause it, come back to it later. 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:00.600 That's the way that a lot of people actually consume their podcasts. 00:03:00.980 --> 00:03:04.880 So don't believe this whole thing of, oh, the average commute is 25 minutes and therefore 00:03:04.980 --> 00:03:07.820 you must make your episodes 25 minutes or shorter. 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:14.120 No, instead, think of it as make sure your episodes are interruptible or possible at 00:03:14.140 --> 00:03:21.840 different points, regardless of how long it is. So other people may intentionally save long podcasts 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:26.840 for road trips, chores, or non-focused work, but they might be quicker to listen to shorter podcasts. 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:32.940 So this isn't saying you have to do short or you even have to do consistent. It's just something 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:40.120 to think about. And note that I specifically said podcasts several times here and not episodes. 00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:45.540 Remember, last episode, I talked about how podcasts really should refer to the whole series, 00:03:45.940 --> 00:03:46.980 not the individual episodes. 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:53.840 And here, I am talking about podcasts as a whole because your podcast will build an expectation 00:03:53.980 --> 00:03:59.340 in your audience's mind for how long its episodes usually are, even if you don't explicitly 00:03:59.700 --> 00:04:00.140 say so. 00:04:00.420 --> 00:04:06.900 For example, I know that episodes of No Agenda with Adam McCurry and John C. Dvorak are usually 00:04:07.100 --> 00:04:08.940 three to three and a half hours long. 00:04:09.540 --> 00:04:11.940 That doesn't keep me from listening to them, though. 00:04:12.380 --> 00:04:16.980 In fact, they published an episode today on the day that I'm recording this episode of 00:04:17.060 --> 00:04:17.400 my podcast. 00:04:17.859 --> 00:04:21.500 I haven't started listening to it yet, but I know I'm going to start listening. 00:04:21.700 --> 00:04:25.380 I have waterproof earbuds, so I listen to podcasts in the shower, and I'm looking forward 00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:30.160 to starting to listen to that episode as soon as I get in the shower, and I'll be listening 00:04:30.200 --> 00:04:31.420 to it as well tomorrow. 00:04:32.020 --> 00:04:38.720 I also know that episodes of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History are of varying lengths, but 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:45.200 almost always very long and very in-depth, not very interruptible, but very worth it. 00:04:45.370 --> 00:04:49.800 Even if you don't really like history, sometimes his stories and the way he tells the information 00:04:49.850 --> 00:04:53.280 is so good, you just get enraptured in the story. 00:04:53.780 --> 00:04:58.420 And I know that Ask the Podcast Coach with Dave Jackson and Jim Collison, those episodes 00:04:58.840 --> 00:05:01.060 are usually about 90 minutes long. 00:05:02.020 --> 00:05:06.820 But none of these shows have made any promises about how long they are. 00:05:07.320 --> 00:05:10.660 the audience might have come to expect something. 00:05:11.260 --> 00:05:15.180 And your audience might expect pressing play on any episode of your podcast 00:05:15.610 --> 00:05:20.200 will be some level of commitment for an approximate amount of time, 00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:22.520 whatever that is that they're expecting. 00:05:23.020 --> 00:05:27.200 And remember, too, that a lot of people listen at faster speeds. 00:05:27.740 --> 00:05:30.060 So even if it's a 30-minute episode, 00:05:30.670 --> 00:05:35.260 that might be 15 or 10 minutes to them based on how they play it. 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:38.060 So don't worry so much about the actual time. 00:05:38.540 --> 00:05:39.600 Worry about the value. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:46.440 Nonetheless, significantly differing from whatever that normal is that you have, if you have a 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.320 norm, that might sort of crack their expectations a little. 00:05:50.460 --> 00:05:55.280 And I say crack because not completely break their expectations or dash their hopes or anything 00:05:55.440 --> 00:05:57.920 like that, but just maybe a little crack in it, just a little. 00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:05.560 It could leave them disappointed or frustrated, depending on how long or how short or what 00:06:05.580 --> 00:06:10.760 or hoped for from the episode. So think of it this way. If you've made a promise to your audience, 00:06:11.300 --> 00:06:18.460 then always strive to keep it. For example, The Newsworthy with Erica Mandy promises episodes to 00:06:18.460 --> 00:06:24.700 be about 10 minutes long, and they are. One Minute Podcast Tips with Danny Brown gives podcasting 00:06:24.880 --> 00:06:29.300 tips in about a minute, wrapped with some other stuff, which is why episodes are usually two to 00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:35.880 three minutes long, but he does share a tip in about a minute. And the original version of The 00:06:35.880 --> 00:06:41.460 Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe promised mysteries, quote, for the curious mind with a short attention 00:06:41.580 --> 00:06:49.640 span, unquote. And I miss the original show. But remember that your audience expects an experience 00:06:50.640 --> 00:06:57.280 more than they expect an amount of time. I think it's okay to break from your audience's typical 00:06:57.280 --> 00:07:03.840 time expectations, but still deliver the experience that they want from your podcast. 00:07:04.350 --> 00:07:10.060 The laughter, the education, the inspiration, the help, the encouragement, the relationships, 00:07:10.230 --> 00:07:14.360 the conversation, informing them of current events. 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:20.100 Whatever it is that is that experience they come to your podcast for, make sure you are 00:07:20.260 --> 00:07:23.860 delivering on that experience however long the episode is. 00:07:24.320 --> 00:07:26.800 Number two, don't force a length. 00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:32.120 Perhaps the worst reasonable thing you could do in your podcast, and I say reasonable there 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.480 because there are lots of horrible things you could do in your podcast, but they're not 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:38.980 reasonable that you might actually do them. 00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:42.440 So that's why I'm saying this is the worst reasonable thing you could do in your podcast 00:07:42.980 --> 00:07:45.980 is to force it to be a particular length. 00:07:46.420 --> 00:07:50.720 Because think of it as if you've recorded much longer and you're trying to force it 00:07:50.940 --> 00:07:52.560 down to a shorter length. 00:07:53.020 --> 00:07:56.880 Well, that could mean cutting out great content just to make it shorter. 00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:03.380 Or what I think is even worse, it could mean filling the episode with stuff that wastes 00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:07.640 your audience time just so your episode can be longer. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.580 And I will confess, I've done that before. 00:08:11.200 --> 00:08:16.540 And I did it on the worst possible podcast to do it with, my comedy podcast that I used 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:16.960 to host. 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.240 I felt like the episodes needed to be an hour long. 00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:26.900 And I remember a couple of times trying to force the episode to be longer because it seemed 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.960 We got through our funny stuff way too quickly, and we should have been done. 00:08:31.250 --> 00:08:32.200 We should have just ended it. 00:08:32.560 --> 00:08:35.240 That extra amount of time was not all that funny. 00:08:35.820 --> 00:08:41.960 Yeah, there were a few extra laughs in there, but it's nothing that we had to include in it. 00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:45.440 In fact, I think the episodes could have been better if we didn't try to make it longer 00:08:45.690 --> 00:08:48.260 in those particular cases that I'm thinking of. 00:08:48.680 --> 00:08:53.100 TV shows have to do this because they have to fill that time slot. 00:08:53.560 --> 00:09:02.820 If it's an hour-long show, and we put that in quotation marks because an hour-long show is more like 42 or 43 minutes because of the ad breaks in it. 00:09:03.250 --> 00:09:10.980 But they can't go longer than that hour because that goes into the next time slot for the next TV show. 00:09:11.350 --> 00:09:13.860 So they have to end so that the next show can start. 00:09:14.420 --> 00:09:20.040 And side note, this frustrates me when a streaming show, something that you can only get on a 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:25.520 streaming platform like Disney+, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, whatever. 00:09:25.970 --> 00:09:31.920 It frustrates me when I can see that the episodes are consistent lengths, because that tells 00:09:32.060 --> 00:09:40.119 me that they edited it to that length intentionally, but for no good reason other than the possibility 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:44.280 that the show may be traditionally broadcast someday. 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.020 And that's why they're trying to keep it to the broadcast clock 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:52.360 instead of just letting the episodes be as long or as short as they need to be. 00:09:52.660 --> 00:09:55.120 However, I'm seeing on some of the more modern shows, 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:58.600 especially lately, I am seeing varying lengths 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:00.860 where one episode might be 50 minutes long 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:04.100 and another episode is an hour and eight minutes long. 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:07.340 And there's no way that you can fit an hour and eight minutes 00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:09.860 into a one hour time slot. 00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:13.980 So that lets me know that maybe then they're not cutting out good stuff. 00:10:14.540 --> 00:10:20.040 And as I'm saying this, you can probably already remember episodes of your favorite TV shows 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:26.360 that felt longer than they should have been, or maybe episodes that felt shorter than they 00:10:26.540 --> 00:10:27.060 should have been. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:32.620 I did a podcast about the TV show once upon a time, and there were several episodes of 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:39.840 the show that they had story to move along, but then they had other stuff that really felt 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:45.940 into the story. Like the episode could have been just as good without those extra scenes or without 00:10:46.140 --> 00:10:50.880 that storyline or anything like that because that storyline didn't add any value. It didn't move 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:55.760 along the plot. It didn't help us get to know the characters better. It was just the same old, same 00:10:55.880 --> 00:11:01.360 old repeated. But your podcast doesn't have to have those restraints. Even if your description 00:11:01.680 --> 00:11:07.560 says your episodes are usually about 30 minutes, and by the way here, usually is a great word to 00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:13.780 use because then you're letting them know this is what it usually is, but it might be different 00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:19.620 sometimes. So even if your description says that your show is usually a certain amount of time, 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:27.200 your audience will never hate you for giving them back their time. And that's what you can often do 00:11:27.680 --> 00:11:31.360 when you're publishing a shorter episode that's at least shorter than they expected. 00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:34.780 You've probably noticed that as I've gotten better with The Audacity to Podcast, 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:36.660 my episodes have gotten shorter. 00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:39.580 I think part of that is the result of more preparation 00:11:39.820 --> 00:11:41.620 that I do now compared to before, 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:44.040 and thus less directionless talking, 00:11:44.260 --> 00:11:46.000 even though I do still go on tangents 00:11:46.140 --> 00:11:48.200 like I've gone on a couple tangents in this episode 00:11:48.680 --> 00:11:49.580 that I didn't plan for. 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:53.180 But I actually feel better when I publish shorter episodes 00:11:53.620 --> 00:11:57.360 because I know that means you have more time to take action 00:11:57.940 --> 00:11:59.840 or because you're a podcaster 00:11:59.980 --> 00:12:02.280 and probably I can assume you listen 00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:03.540 to a lot of podcasts yourself. 00:12:04.180 --> 00:12:08.840 If I publish a shorter episode, it means that you have more time to listen to other episodes 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:10.740 that you also want to listen to. 00:12:11.040 --> 00:12:14.380 So I'm giving you back some of your time when I publish a short episode. 00:12:14.860 --> 00:12:19.520 And when I publish those short episodes, it also tells me that I didn't waste your time. 00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:22.040 Or at least, not very much of it. 00:12:22.300 --> 00:12:28.760 But some topics simply require me to share more information, and thus, they end up longer. 00:12:29.260 --> 00:12:33.259 I would so much rather do a longer episode to give you all of the information you need 00:12:33.500 --> 00:12:41.220 than shorter split episodes. And after doing this for 15 years, and now more than 400 episodes, 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:47.960 I've never received a single complaint about having inconsistent lengths of my episodes. 00:12:48.450 --> 00:12:53.280 And I think a big reason for that is because my content is educational, and thus people don't mind 00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:58.120 it when it's shorter, but also because they might have come to expect varying lengths. 00:12:58.920 --> 00:13:01.940 Number three, should you mention the difference in length? 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.680 Whether your episode is much shorter or longer than your usual, 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:10.080 if you acknowledge that difference, it's ultimately up to you. 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:11.980 But here's my main suggestion. 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.580 Be positive and don't apologize. 00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:17.920 Here are a couple examples so you can think about how these would feel 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:21.200 if you heard them in your favorite podcast that you listen to. 00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:22.280 Someone might say, 00:13:22.540 --> 00:13:25.140 I'm sorry this episode went long, but I had a lot to share. 00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:26.700 See, that's an apology. 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:28.460 Versus saying something like, 00:13:28.860 --> 00:13:32.440 This episode is longer than usual because there's so much to love here. 00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:34.080 See, that's more positive. 00:13:34.560 --> 00:13:36.700 It's setting up the expectation of, yeah, it's longer, 00:13:37.180 --> 00:13:40.460 but it's longer because there's a lot of great stuff in this. 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:43.640 And even without using the word but in there. 00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:44.780 Or another example. 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:46.400 Sorry this was shorter than usual. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:48.120 Again, that's an apology. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.380 Versus saying something like, yes, this was shorter. 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.900 Now you have more time to take action. 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.080 Or you could say nothing at all. 00:13:56.620 --> 00:14:01.500 Thus, the most important things for you to remember are to keep your explicit or implied 00:14:01.780 --> 00:14:05.940 promises to your audience and don't force the length. 00:14:06.350 --> 00:14:08.380 A quick glance over at the community corner. 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:12.760 Thanks for the streaming support totaling 113 satoshis from Randy Black. 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:19.000 And I'm pleased to say that I will be speaking at Podcast Movement 2025 in Dallas, Texas, 00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:21.160 and I would love for you to come to my session. 00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:27.100 I'll be presenting what you need to know about podcasting 2.0 Wednesday morning in the expo 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:27.380 hall. 00:14:27.420 --> 00:14:31.320 I don't really like that's in the expo hall, but hey, maybe I'll get more people in the 00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:33.940 session for that and we can build up some enthusiasm. 00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:38.400 So if you come and sit in the audience, please cheer, please clap, please laugh loudly, you 00:14:38.400 --> 00:14:41.160 know, make it so that people want to be there with you too. 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:42.920 And I hope to see you in the audience. 00:14:43.380 --> 00:14:48.519 And there will be another session with the podfather, the creator of podcasting and creator 00:14:48.540 --> 00:14:55.080 of Podcasting 2.0, Adam Curry, will also be speaking later on that same day. So our sessions 00:14:55.170 --> 00:15:00.540 are going to kind of build upon each other. Mine will be more the what you need to know kind of 00:15:00.760 --> 00:15:06.380 why this matters, how to get started. His will probably focus more on the practical side as well 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:12.100 as why was this even created in the first place. So some of the behind the scenes stuff as well as 00:15:12.280 --> 00:15:17.720 maybe demonstrating what some of the features do. I'll be focusing more on why you should even care 00:15:18.060 --> 00:15:21.160 as well as why some of the features are exciting. 00:15:21.540 --> 00:15:23.520 And if you love The Audacity to Podcast 00:15:23.680 --> 00:15:26.360 and value the podcasting inspiration and education I provide, 00:15:26.860 --> 00:15:30.960 would you please consider giving back what you feel it's worth to you? 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:35.880 Whether that's a dollar, $10, $1,000, if you feel like that, 00:15:36.260 --> 00:15:37.140 it's totally up to you. 00:15:37.140 --> 00:15:41.540 You can go to theaudacitytopodcast.com/giveback 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:46.560 or stream Satoshis or send a Boostergram through your Podcasting 2.0 app 00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:48.900 or even it doesn't cost you anything at all, 00:15:49.180 --> 00:15:52.220 get another podcaster listening to The Audacity to Podcast. 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:55.760 Now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, 00:15:56.180 --> 00:15:59.740 it's time for you to go start and grow your own podcast, 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.080 no matter the lengths of the episodes that you publish, for passion and profit. 00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:07.540 I'm Daniel J. Lewis from theaudacitytopodcast.com. 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:08.660 Thanks for listening.