How long should your episode closing be?
Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast. I'm Daniel J. Lewis. While your episode
openings should be as short as possible, like I talked about in the previous episode, number 395,
go back and listen if you haven't yet, the length of your episode closings can be a bit more dynamic,
similar to how I used opening to include everything in your episode before the unique content,
including the introduction. I consider the closing to be everything after the episode's unique
content, including the outro inside of that closing. So how long or how short should it be?
The answer is actually a little different this time. And that answer is as simple as possible.
Yes, you heard me correctly.
I said simple, not necessarily short. As podcasters trying to grow our audiences and
get more social media followers and get feedback, and sometimes even trying to monetize our podcasts,
it can be easy to overload our audiences with too many calls to action or CTAs, all of those crammed
into the closing in the episode. It's as if like this is the last chance we'll ever have to reach
our audience. So we better tell them every single one of them.
Last thing they need to know before we die. That last breath. It's, oh, and one more thing.
You don't have to treat the closings of your episodes like you're dying.
I have heard some closings that were longer than two minutes because the podcaster had so many
calls to action. I remember one time counting. I'm not sure if it was for the two minutes
one or some other podcast, but it was somewhere around 20 calls to action.
In their closing. That's way too much. But the end of the episode is also after you've delivered
the value of your podcast. So while I think having a short closing is still good, I think it's
actually more important to keep it simple and simple doesn't really have a length to it. In
fact, I think a one minute closing with only one relevant and personable call to action is better
than a three minute closing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's
a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing.
A 30 second closing with 10 calls to action. And I have heard that done before too. It was do this,
do this, do this, do this, do this, and do that and do this and do that. And it was like,
I didn't even hear what the first one was. And now you're on number 10. So separate my previous
advice about keeping your episode opening as short as possible. And for your closing, I think
you should strive to simplify that closing so that your audience has to remember only one or two
things you ask them to do. And a way to do this, even if you have lots of calls to action, is to
spread out your calls to action. Instead of loading up every call to action you have and firing it all
off in your closing like the grand finale of a fireworks show, try spreading out your calls to
action in your episode. For example, instead of saving your request for questions for the end of
your episode, use that call to action maybe right before you answer someone else's question. For
example, you could say,
please send me your question about whatever your topic is by and then mention what that contact
method is, like if it's a landing page or an email address or whatever, but make it one call to action.
Not a whole bunch here. Make it one call to action. That one call to action can have multiple options
on it, but make this one call to action. So I might say, please send me your questions about
podcasting through podcastfeedback.com/audacity, just like John did. And John asked,
and then I play.
John's message or read John's question. That's a way that you can incorporate the call to action
when it's very contextually relevant. And it's also spread somewhere else in the episode. Maybe
then even after you finish answering John's question, you could remind people. And if you
have a question too, just like John did, then please send it through and then you give that
feedback option. And by the way, podcastfeedback.com/audacity, that's powered by
podgagement, where you can send me a written message or send me a question. So that's a way to
send me a voicemail right there through the browser on your mobile device or on your computer.
I'd love to literally hear from you and how I can help you through The Audacity to Podcast.
That's over at podcastfeedback.com/audacity powered by podgagement. Getting back to your
closings, you can do a similar thing. Even if you're asking your audience to quote, buy unquote,
something you are quote selling unquote, whether that's something from your business or supporting
your podcast financially or with their talent or something else.
You might be able to put that anywhere else in your episode, especially if you can make it as
non-interruptive as possible. For example, this is a more common way that you'll hear this, but it is
fairly non-interruptive. Someone might say, by the way, thanks to John, Sally, and Susan for loving
the podcast enough to give back to it. If you love the podcast too, and want to give back some value,
please visit. And then they have their give back or their value page or whatever it is that they can
receive financial support. And then they say, now on to number seven. And so that was for a
realistic call to action. That was maybe 10, 15 seconds, gives the important information,
gives some shout outs, gives that call to action and moving right along. It's very short that way,
or even better, in my opinion, when you mentioned something related to your call to action,
give your call to action. Then just like I did a couple of minutes ago, when I mentioned podgagement,
because I was talking about voicemails for my podcast audience. And that also brought up that
you could get voicemails for your podcast audience. So that was a perfect time for me to tell you about
podgagement, which gives you that kind of speakable landing page that you can share with your audience
to collect that written and voicemail feedback. So see, even right here in the demonstration of a
call to action, I'm giving a call to action. Go to podgagement.com to sign up. You can also spread
your calls to action across different platforms. So if you're a podgagement, you can also spread
your calls to action across different platforms. So if you're a podggement, you can also spread your
calls to action across different platforms. So if you're a podggement, you can also spread your
episodes, maybe even considering a week of the month kind of schedule. For example,
you could promote your email list the first week, you could promote your own product or service the
second week, or maybe you have multiple products and services. So you focus on one the second week,
and then a different one on the fourth week. And then on the third week,
between those two product promotions, you promote your audience community and so forth with whatever
other calls to action. Now, and yes, some calls to action might be too important,
to space them out that much. Maybe you need to say it in every episode of the month, and that's fine.
If you have repeated calls to action like that, just still be strategic with where you place them
and not placing them too closely to a lot of other calls to action. Try and space out your
calls to action. And remember, give your audience a reason to stay until the end of your episode.
As a fan of movie soundtracks, I always stay through the credits of a movie theater,
and always watch a movie until the very end after the credits, whether at home or in the theater.
And so I love how the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or the MCU, has inspired people to stay because
those people want to see the setup for the next movie, or some kind of joke from the movie they
just saw, or something that ties in. I still frequently make the joke about random movies that
Nick Fury is going to come and recruit the main character for the Avengers. And yes,
I'll do this for almost any movie, like Toy Story, Star Wars. I've even done it about Jesus at the end
of the Christmas movie, The Nativity, saying that, oh yeah, wait, just wait, Nick Fury's going to
come out and recruit Jesus to be one of the Avengers. That aside, though, although you
don't have to have Nick Fury recruit someone from your podcast at the end of every episode,
as awesome as that would be, still, look for ways to inspire your audience to stay until the
very end. Just don't make them get impatient waiting through your calls to action, your too
many calls to action. That ending that they're waiting for and looking forward to could be a joke,
some bloopers, it could be an inspirational quotation, it could be a closing tip,
it could be a quick and applicable review of the episode's contents, or anything else relevant to
your show and your audience, especially if it's relevant to that episode. And keep this in mind.
I think many ways beyond just your openings and closings. Lead with value, leave with value.
In my previous episode about episode openings, I emphasized that you should start each episode
jumping into the valuable content as quickly as possible. That's leading with value,
because that's the first thing that you're giving is value right up front.
And you should also leave your audience with value. Let the last thing they hear from you in each episode not be
a self-serving call to action, but something of value to them. In The Audacity to Podcast,
it's my altered version of my tagline. My normal tagline is giving you the guts and teaching you
the tools to start and grow your own podcast for passion and profit. But in my closing, I say,
now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, it's time for you to go
start and grow your own podcast for passion and profit. See, there's some inspiration there. It's
that I've given something to you. Now that I've inspired you in some way, now it's time for you
to go do something with that. And then I say my name, I say thank you, and end. Sometimes that
is my entire closing. No other calls to action or anything like that. Just that. The whole point is
like the campground rule. Leave your audience better than how you found them. Make sure you've
delivered value to them, whether that's education, information, inspiration, or even the way you
simply entertainment. That is value too. You could even say that it's something that leaves them with
positive energy. And I don't mean that in a mystical sense, but that they actually feel
more energized towards something positive after your episode. Maybe they have a smile now. Maybe
they learned something useful. Or maybe they're inspired to put into action what they heard from
your episode, as I hope that you are inspired too. And you hear me talk about this often, profit,
popularity, relationships, opportunities, fun, income, or tangibles. Always remember that it's
also about what you help your audience get from your podcast. So help them with that profit.
Lead with value and leave with value. And speaking of value, if you value The Audacity to Podcast
and the information and inspiration, maybe a little bit of entertainment that I give,
would you consider figuring out what that's worth to you and giving some of that value back?
Over at theaudacitytopodcast.com/giveback or through your Podcasting 2.0 app,
like Brian Inspinger did from top tier audio. He sent 406 sats on my previous episode about
episode openings, and he didn't include a comment, but I was curious about the meaning of that number
406. So I asked my favorite AI toolbox, Magi, and I got suggestions that it could be related to
an angel number, an area code in Montana, maybe a
problem. And I got suggestions that it could be related to an angel number, an area code in
Montana, maybe a problem. And I got suggestions that it could be related to an angel number, an
area code in Montana, maybe a problem. And I got suggestions that it could be related to an angel
number, an area code in Montana, maybe a problem. And I got suggestions that it could be related to
an angel number, an area code in Montana, maybe a problem. And I got suggestions that it could be
related to an angel number, an area code in Montana, maybe a problem. And I got suggestions
that it could be related to an angel number, an area code in Montana, maybe a problem.
Or my favorite thing that the AI said, and by the way, if you want to try Magi too,
I've got an affiliate link in the notes. It's theaudacitytopodcast.com/magai. I use it.
I recommend it because I use it and I love it. But my favorite thing that the AI reminded me is that
406 is an internet error code, meaning not acceptable. Now, I doubt that's what Brian meant
when he sent that 406, but I really don't know. And by the way, this is what's so fun about the
value for value philosophy is when you let your audience decide what your podcast is worth to them
and put that in a number, not only does that mean that you could potentially receive very large
gifts from your audience in exchange for the value you've given them, but it also means
that your audience has the opportunity to pick fun numbers, numbers that might mean something to
them or to you or to the podcast. And so like 406, it would be funny if Brian actually meant
it as not acceptable, but 406 is not a common error code. I didn't know about 406 as the error
code. I'd forgotten about that one. I know everyone knows 404 and we've seen some other
error codes here and there, but 406, I don't know. Maybe, you know.
You could comment on this or you could send a boostagram or anything. But if you get value
from The Audacity to Podcast, would you consider giving some value back? Even if you can't give
anything financially, like maybe you're thinking, oh, the podcast is worth so much to me. I wish I
could give something to you. I just can't right now because of cashflow. I totally get that.
Honestly, I really do get that. And I'm not going to say, oh, you're a horrible person for not
giving nothing like that, but something you can do that would be really helpful and supportive
would be get someone else listening to the podcast, whether they are a new podcast,
or a seasoned podcaster, send them to theaudacitytopodcast.com. And now that I've given
you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, it's time for you to go start and grow
your own podcast for passion and profit. I'm Daniel J. Lewis from theaudacitytopodcast.com.
Thanks for listening.