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Do IAB certified stats really matter for your podcast?

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Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast.

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I'm Daniel J. Lewis.

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You might have heard people talk about IAB podcast stats, measurement guidelines, compliance

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and certification.

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Here's what all of that means and whether it even matters.

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If you would like to follow along in the notes for this episode, and I have some links that

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you might be interested in.

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The notes are a simple tap or swipe away or at theaudacitytopodcast.com/iabstats.

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First who is the IAB?

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Story time.

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Once upon a time, podcast measurement was considered the wild, wild west.

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Without standards, everyone measured what was right in their own eyes.

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But like most things that start with "once upon a time," that was only a fairy tale.

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And yet, a fairy tale that many corporate podcasting companies believed.

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Many years ago, there was the Association of Downloadable Media, or ADM.

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That included Blueberry, Libsyn, PodTrack, and other podcasting companies way back in

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the early days of podcasting.

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The ADM came up with standards for measuring podcast downloads, even though it was still

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way back in those extremely early days.

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And many of those standards that they came up with have influenced the current standards today.

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The ADM eventually dissolved and top podcasting companies then built on top of those standards

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and improved with those standards and building things into it in their own proprietary systems

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and not necessarily sharing those algorithms with their competitors.

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But then along came the Internet Advertising Bureau, involving many of the same original

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podcast hosting providers, but also large distribution networks like Podcast One and

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other podcasting involved parties that weren't even around back when the ADM existed. And

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as its name implies, the IAB, Internet Advertising Bureau, is all about internet advertising.

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And the podcasting industry actually did need a standard way to measure podcast downloads

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so that they could measure ad impressions for advertisers. And thus, the IAB podcast

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measurement guidelines were born with version 1.0 in September 2016.

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So what are these IAB stats? IAB's podcast measurement guidelines are actually not rigid

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standards but mere guidelines for podcast analytics providers to use. Like Elizabeth

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Swan said in Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl, "Your pirates hang the

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code and hang the rules. They're more like guidelines anyway." Boy I love that quotation.

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Now getting into the technical details, these "guidelines" are intended to filter out

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any kind of invalid podcast download in attempts to get an accurate count of how many people

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are actually downloading or streaming the episodes, and then with the hopes, backed

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by survey data, that most of the people actually listen to most of those episodes. And a side

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note, podcast streams are also downloads. They're simply not downloaded until the

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person presses play, but they do still count as downloads. That is streams in a podcast

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app, not other places that aren't podcast apps like YouTube and Rumble and other places

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like that. Those have their own systems, their own measurement, their own distribution protocols

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and everything. But here inside a podcast app, streams are also downloads. They're

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just delayed or progressive, but they do count in the download stats. So it's all basically

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downloads. And these guidelines from the IAB try to then properly measure those downloads

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and streams involving certain criteria and rules like the following. And this is not

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an exhaustive list and it's not even a very detailed list. But it might include some of

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these general principles. Ignoring all downloads from an IP address blacklist, such as data

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centers, bot farms, and such. Ignoring all downloads from known invalid user agents.

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A user agent is how an app or service identifies itself.

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So some user agents are instantly known, this is not a legitimate downloader.

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It could also be ignoring duplicate downloads that look exactly the same within a certain

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period of time, usually 24 hours.

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It could also be ignoring downloads that don't reach a threshold, like right now it's 1

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minute of audio.

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And also whitelisting some IP addresses known to have a lot of users behind those IP addresses,

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Like public wifi, businesses, colleges and such where there's a single IP address, a

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public IP address, but lots of people are behind that.

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And so these whitelists will then allow such downloads to be counted separately with the

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reasonable assumption that it is separate people downloading that same file.

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Even though maybe some of these other things might look the same, it's probably someone

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different because there are a lot of people on that same IP address.

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There are a lot of other rules and guidelines and all of the stuff that's built into it.

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You can certainly read all of that technical information if you want to, but I didn't

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want to get very technical in this episode.

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The top goal here is really to count people, not simply downloads.

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Because it's only people who buy things from ads, engage with the podcasters, and

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listen to or watch the episodes.

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IAB guidelines get updated every few years.

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As of March 2024, the latest version is 2.2, still in a proposal stage and available for

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public comment.

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If you'd like to go over there and contribute to it, you certainly can.

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I've got the link in the notes for this episode.

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Tap or swipe away or at theaudacitytopodcast.com/iabstats.

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So what is IAB compliance versus IAB certification?

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When the IAB guidelines were first released, many in the podcasting industry, including

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myself, expressed the importance that all podcasting companies that provide audience

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analytics should not only follow the IAB guidelines, but even get certified to be following them.

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But there were also many others who disagreed with the guidelines. Some people thought the

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guidelines were too conservative. Others thought they were too liberal. Because the guidelines

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are publicly accessible, anyone can build a tool that follows the guidelines. And that's

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the term IAB compliant came in. It was companies simply claiming compliance based on how they

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implemented the guidelines. Then along came the certification program. This was a costly

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process both in time and money for a third party organization to conduct tests and review code

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to ensure the companies were truly following the guidelines and then certifying that they

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are doing it. And you can see a complete list of the certified podcasting companies in the

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link that I have in the notes for this episode at theaudacitytopodcast.com/iabstats. Not only

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does it cost to be certified, it also costs to be a member of the IAB, and it costs to

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be re-certified, which the IAB was pushing in 2023, and it costs to have updated access

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to the IAB's white lists and black lists of IP addresses so that you can instantly

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populate your own database with how things should be filtered in or out.

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But with the high cost of these things, and we're talking tens of thousands of dollars,

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it seems that several companies are not so concerned about being "certified" anymore.

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And you can see that list of certified podcasting companies under the podcast compliance tab

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of the link I've got in the notes.

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And many of those companies are still certified to only version 2.0 even though some of them

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are certified to 2.1 and we've got 2.2 just around the corner.

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And some companies might not care about keeping up with the certification.

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But before we get into whether that even matters, here's why IAB certified podcast stats are

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actually a good thing.

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I agree with the premise of the IAB podcast measurement guidelines and that is to have

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a consistent measurement "standard" across the podcast industry. The dream of this standard

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is that no matter who you use for podcast hosting and analytics, the statistics you

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get will be essentially the same. Or put another way, 100 people downloading your latest episode

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would be counted as 100 downloads on Blueberry, or 100 downloads on Captivate, or 100 downloads

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on Buzzsprout or 100 downloads on any other provider because they're all measuring it

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the same.

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That's the dream.

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If everyone is following the same standard, then there wouldn't be the heartbreak and

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confusion if you switch from one provider to another and see a significant drop in your

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stats because there shouldn't be much of a difference if everyone is measuring the

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same way.

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So it's definitely a good thing for a podcasting company to follow the IAB guidelines and being

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Being certified means that a neutral third party can confirm the guidelines are being

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followed correctly.

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It's just like when you meet someone and they say, "You can trust me."

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Well, how do you actually know you can trust them?

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Unless someone else you know and trust says, "Yes, you can trust this person."

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Then it's that other person's reputation being attributed to that person that you're

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not sure if you can trust, but because someone else says you can trust them, you know, "Alright,

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I can trust you because someone else I trust says I can trust you.

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That's the whole thing about no like and trust factor that comes with podcasting.

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And when I recommend a product or service and I say I really like this, I suggest that

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you use it, that comes from, I hope, a history of gaining that trust.

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But if I was just a nobody telling you something, then you would have a very good reason to

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be skeptical.

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Just like with podcast stats, if there isn't that third party actually certifying, yes,

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stats are legitimate, then you do have good reason to question them. So that's why the

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IAB certified stats are a good thing, especially to have them certified. But, every standard

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will have loopholes. That dream of how all of the companies measure exactly the same

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way, there's no variation between them or very little, that's a dream. And so thus

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it's unfortunately not the reality. The biggest reason is that, going back to Ms.

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Elizabeth Swan, the IAB measurement guidelines are exactly and only that, guidelines. As

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such, some companies will implement those guidelines differently, or they use different

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white lists and black lists. And over the years, there have been multiple loopholes

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found that some podcasting companies independently patch, even though the IAB guidelines might

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not require those patches, at least not yet. For example, Twitter bombing was a problem

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several years ago. That's where someone would post a direct link to their podcast

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media file, like their MP3 file, on Twitter, as it was then called, and then repeatedly

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post that link all day, every day. Companies like Blueberry and Libsyn caught this behavior

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fairly quickly and were able to filter it out so those misled podcasters, or maybe even

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outright deceptive podcasters, wouldn't have fraudulent stats. Because that's what

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really were. They were fraudulent. I even caught a podcaster guilty of this crime, we

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could call it, when they were twitter bombing my own guest appearance on their podcast.

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When I politely tried to share the truth with them, they deleted my episode. I think they've

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maybe seen the light since then and certainly I know who they were using for their hosting

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and their analytics. So certainly they've seen that those fake downloads were not being

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counted anymore. Or more recently, some podcast networks put ads in mobile games where the

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podcast audio would start playing automatically and enough of the audio would pre-download

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or buffer that it would actually get counted as a legitimate download even for IAB certified

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providers. Because in most platforms where you press play, even though it might be called

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a stream, when you press play it just starts downloading usually at whatever speed it's

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capable of downloading through that internet connection, sometimes with no file size limit.

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So you might press play and listen to only two seconds of audio but in those two seconds

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if you have a fast enough internet connection, the entire episode might have been downloaded.

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So even listening to only two seconds could result in that download being counted and

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that's basically what was happening in these mobile apps.

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But that was not legitimate. Even though it is technically an IAB certified download,

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and these were from IAB certified providers, still, it's not really a download. And I

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think that goes to the problem of having to consider the context of the episode. Not necessarily

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how it's measured, but where is it being played? And should that really be counted

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if it's being played in a context where people don't actually intend to listen to it.

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Some of that the IAB can address and they're trying to, some of that they really can't.

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It's a loophole and we may never be able to patch that. It's more the behavior of

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where you put these podcast episodes that makes the bigger difference instead of trying

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to patch and make sure that we block every possible illegitimate download that could

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be where someone pressed play for only two seconds. There are ways around that in certain

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cases and the IAB is trying to solve that in some of these cases. In my past research

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for testing the fastest podcast hosting, an episode that I did in 2019, I've got the

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link to that in the notes, I also discovered that some hosting providers counted some or

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even all of my bot downloads. And I didn't even attempt to disguise my bot downloads

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as real people using podcast apps. Now please note, if you look back at that episode from

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2019, some or let's hope all those previously guilty companies have probably improved their

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measurement algorithms since that test way back in 2019. But we can probably assume not

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SoundCloud because I don't think anyone works in the podcast department at SoundCloud

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anymore. They are archaic. They haven't updated in years. They are years behind on

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podcasting innovations. Don't use SoundCloud. Just don't do it.

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But moving on, does it really matter anymore if your podcast hosting provider has IAB certified stats?

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Well, here's why I think you don't actually need IAB certified podcast stats.

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I think it's nice to know your numbers are certified, especially if you get paid by advertisers

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based on your downloads.

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You want to make sure that you have as accurate as possible of a number so that you're not

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overcharging your advertisers.

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getting the value that they expect for advertising on your podcast.

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But at this point, I think it's safe to assume all the good podcast hosting providers

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are following the guidelines and seek to filter out the non-person, non-human downloads.

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They could probably better invest that money.

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It would have cost to be certified and be part of the IAB and buy the whitelists and

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blacklists and all of that stuff.

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Probably better to instead invest that into building better features for their customer.

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And here is what I think is the even more important approach to this.

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Do IAB certified stats matter to your audience?

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The answer, if you ask your audience, is most likely a big fat "huh?"

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Because your audience probably doesn't know or doesn't care about IAB certification.

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And they shouldn't have to know or care about it either.

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Your audience can celebrate milestones with you no matter whether those milestones are

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certified by an expensive neutral third party.

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Your audience cares much more about the value you deliver through your podcast than they

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care about how many downloads you're getting.

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In other words, the answer to the audience's question of "what's in it for me" when it

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comes to IAB certified stats, the answer is probably nothing.

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Yes, more downloads could mean more profit, P-R-O-F-I-T, that's popularity, relationships,

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opportunities, fun, income, and tangibles for both you and your audience.

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And it can mean a bigger community for your audience to engage with each other, but that

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comes with the actual people in your audience, not the standard by which you measure them.

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So even if the numbers say you're getting a thousand downloads but only ten people are

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listening, then you have an audience of ten, not a thousand.

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And that bigger number is not going to do you any good.

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It can actually harm you, especially if you're taking it to an advertiser and they're expecting

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for a thousand people to hear their ad when you have only ten people actually hearing

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your ad.

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The actual difference is not like that.

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That's an exaggeration, so keep that in mind.

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It's not actually going to be that big of a difference.

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So I've changed my mind about IAB certification.

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Because IAB certification really doesn't matter to your audience, I've stopped considering

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it a requirement for any podcast hosting provider or analytics tool I recommend. It's nice

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to have, but not mandatory. Instead, I'm far more interested in the innovations podcasting

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companies are making, so that the whole experience can be better for you and your audience. That's

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why I consider Support for Podcasting 2.0 to be my new litmus test for podcast publishing

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tools and no longer IAB certification. It's nice to have, but do you really need it? Probably

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not. Unless you've got an advertiser, then you might want to consider it. But there are

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some really good alternatives these days. You'll need to decide this really for yourself.

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I've mentioned several resources and links in this episode. If you want those links,

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go to the notes for this episode a simple tap or swipe away or at theaudacitytopodcast.com/iabstats.

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Now here's a new feature that I want to include in episodes of the Audacity podcast.

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I'm calling it the Community Corner where you engage back, give some kind of value back,

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or a message back, or comment, a review, anything like that.

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This is not a pay to play, pay to get mentioned.

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Although in the past I had said something about a 10,000 sat limit if you're using

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a Podcasting 2.0 app and boosting there.

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I've decided, no, I think I'd rather just engage, whether you send stats, a donation

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or not.

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And by the way, I didn't realize until just recently, my podcast was not using the funding tag.

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So in some podcast apps now, when you look at The Audacity to Podcast, you might see

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a little dollar sign that you can tap on.

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And if you'd like, send a donation of whatever amount, whatever value you feel the Audacity

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to Podcast has given you.

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Or if you're on a modern podcasting 2.0 app, then you can send a boostogram or you can

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stream Satoshi's back to The Audacity to Podcast or just send a message through castfeedback.com/audacity.

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So that's the kind of stuff I want to start featuring here in the community corner.

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First of all, 2,033 sats from Aquileth, Aquileth?

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I'm not sure how to pronounce that, but he's saying.

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And this was one of the things that got me thinking about this.

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He said, "10,000," talking about the number of sats I previously said, anything that's

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10,000 sats and above I'll mention in the podcast.

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He said, "10,000 can be a lot for someone who doesn't feed their fountain wallet or

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equivalent with outside funds and not currently podcasting themselves, despite engaging with

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the app daily."

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That said, thank you for this episode and this list.

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I immediately shared it with someone who's setting up their first podcast.

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Go podcasting!

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I believe that was in reference to my episode about micropayments.

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Then Steve Webb sent 7777, I believe that's the rush boost, in response to my episode

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How to Use Podcast Transcripts.

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He said, "Great episode, Daniel.

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While I have been using transcripts for some time on my shows, I wasn't really sure I

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was doing it correctly.

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This episode will help me to make some changes going forward.

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Thank you and may God bless you richly."

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Thank you, Steve.

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333 sats from Alan C. Paul, also on How to Use Podcast Transcripts. He said, "Couldn't

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help but notice this episode doesn't have a transcript. LOL but great info." And you

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know, actually what it turns out is that I had said in that episode I was going to use

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VTT transcripts from then on and it turns out that some apps actually don't support

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VTT yet. In fact, Castamatic, the app that I'm trying out for a month, and I believe

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that's the same app that Alan C. Paul is using. Castamatic doesn't or didn't at that time support

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VTT but it will soon. So I switched back to SRT until Castamatic supports VTT then I'll switch

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back to VTT and so you'll see those transcripts in there. And also Alan has been giving the

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Audacity to Podcast a bunch of five-star ratings on good pods. Thank you very much for those.

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I get to see those now because Podgagement shows me all of those. And AJ the second from the United

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States gave me a five-star review in Apple Podcasts saying, "Advice is stellar. His

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style and topics, along with the way he speaks and communicates, is terrific. Thanks!"

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Well, thank you so much, AJ. And Dave Jackson responded to my myth information in my last

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episode with this voicemail.

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[Dave] Daniel, absolutely. Myth information, and that is hard to say. Definitely made me chuckle.

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[David] Thank you, Dave, for that. Dave is from the School of Podcasting, and that voicemail

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and transcript were powered by Podgagement.

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So if you would like to send a Boostogram, a message, a voicemail, or anything like that,

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I've got the contact information and links in the notes for this episode and probably

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every episode at theaudacitytopodcast.com/iabstats.

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And I'd love to engage with you.

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This is a little bit of an experiment.

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It might be longer, and sometimes it might be shorter, but I wanted to have some fun

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with this and engage with you a bit more here, even inside these episodes.

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So boost away!

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Or stream those Satoshis, or send the audio feedback, or written feedback, or a 5-star

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rating and review in whatever app you use and Podgagement should pick it up for me.

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And now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, it's

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time for you to go start and grow your own podcast for passion and profit.

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I'm Daniel J. Lewis from Theaudacitytopodcast.com and on ex-Twitter as @TheDanielJLewis.

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Thanks for listening.

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